Turbocharged Scion FR-S build thread

[import_nation]

Not unless you are going to run very low boost, which isn't exactly wicked bang for your buck.

dboz like I've said before. Regardless of what you plan to do with this car - ENDLESS possibilities. At the end of the day its just a small japanese 200hp 4 banger. You can't really compare these to V6s and V8s. Not in a fair way at least. There are fast 4 cylinders just as there are fast 12 cylinders. There is no BEST for everyone. Just what is best for you. And I'm personally saying that those who are looking at the FR-S are very unlikely to be looking at a Mustang, corvette or any other v6 or v8 for that matter. It's like debating between a TL and an M3.

If you like the FR-S you probably have a reason. If not you are going to consider something else. I'm in the market for a light RWD chassis and I have not even considered the Mustang or Corvette. I barely even want to consider the G37 or 370z. Different price range. Maybe a used S2000.

[dboz]

I might be looking at the wrong vehicle too. I'm with you on wait for others to mod their cars...just to see what people can do with it. Much rather they test on their engine...lol. As far as the Evo....how is that for fun on the street?

The X is fun on the street. After 2.5 years, I am thinking of moving onto something else. Great steering and handling. Awesome in the snow. Tough to beat IMO for a true 4 seasons performance type car that can still haul 4 comfortably.

[rwdftw]

IF you want to put drag cars out there
6.7 second car 4 banger and this isnt a Funny car either

[AE86]

TO sum up this debate everyone mods their own cars for their own reasons... if you think dumping 5k on wheels is dumb then you can think that a ton of people will dump that much money on wheels but if you have your family then whatever comes first.

[dboz]

I did not say it was dumb. I just said there is a small number of people who will actually spend BIG money doing massive mods on a car. They are out there for every model of car. Just saying, aftermarket companies invest money into products that will return a profit for their efforts. Full boat engine builds will happen for sure, but 90% of the market is NOT going to go that route. Bolt ons like CAI, Exhaust and wheels and springs and MAYBE a turbo or supercharger (both of which are a big ticket item) are not going to be common as this is a lower end car that is being marketed to lower income buyers. If you have a big budget, you are probably looking for a different car. This is essentially a 20 something car or a mid life crisis car. If the later, they WILL NOT be modding. If the former, they will do mods but the budget is not going to be massive. For some it will, for MOST it will NOT.

[import_nation]

I did not say it was dumb. I just said there is a small number of people who will actually spend BIG money doing massive mods on a car. They are out there for every model of car. Just saying, aftermarket companies invest money into products that will return a profit for their efforts. Full boat engine builds will happen for sure, but 90% of the market is NOT going to go that route. Bolt ons like CAI, Exhaust and wheels and springs and MAYBE a turbo or supercharger (both of which are a big ticket item) are not going to be common as this is a lower end car that is being marketed to lower income buyers. If you have a big budget, you are probably looking for a different car. This is essentially a 20 something car or a mid life crisis car. If the later, they WILL NOT be modding. If the former, they will do mods but the budget is not going to be massive. For some it will, for MOST it will NOT.

I agree. Most FR-S or BRZ owners that are planning to go into the "modify your car" route will probably end up with an intake/header/exhaust and some form of suspension lowering and possibly rims. It will be interesting to see how far you can get with simple bolt ons. I know AEM has already been working with some future BRZ owners over at BRZ forum to design a cold air intake. The car isnt out yet so we don't know what to expect. Personally I would love to see what the potential of this car is as a racing platform. As a spirited daily driver I think basic mods will improve the response but it isn't going to save this car from being 200hp. Most people can't afford or don't want to afford a turbo or supercharger kit. It's not hard to spend 10K if you go down that route.

[dboz]

This is why I say to dyno and build in a step wise fashion. A CAI intake may not even be needed unless you just want more noise. Which from what I have read, is not a problem as this engine and exhaust are already noisy in stock form. The EVO X does not need a CAI for better flow, the factory did a good job, a drop in panel filter does the same as a $200 CAI. Just saying. You need to see what bolt ons do in a step wise fashion to determine their value and worth. I am not into just throwing money somewhere where there is no gain UNLESS you just need the LOOK of something shiny or powder coated to make you fit the SCENE.

[import_nation]

I am not into just throwing money somewhere where there is no gain UNLESS you just need the LOOK of something shiny or powder coated to make you fit the SCENE.

I don't think anyone that would be talking about performance would want to either.

[dboz]

Sure they would. There are all sorts of prettied up parts that do nothing for performance. Button heads with colored washers, colored hoses, valve cover soup ups. All sorts of stuff people buy that don't add a thing to performance. I see this stuff on tuner cars all the time. Window tints, different colored lenses on their tail lights, yellow fogs, etc. etc.

[hatchi]

That what people do to alter their cars a lot of the tuner crowd has no idea what their doing for performance..

i agree colored fender washers i , mean sure all that is great for a show car, or finishing touches to a car.. but to claim i have a modified car with "custom headlight flim" Custom tail light flim.. please... dont call it a heavily modified car...

[import_nation]

Sure they would. There are all sorts of prettied up parts that do nothing for performance. Button heads with colored washers, colored hoses, valve cover soup ups. All sorts of stuff people buy that don't add a thing to performance. I see this stuff on tuner cars all the time. Window tints, different colored lenses on their tail lights, yellow fogs, etc. etc.

I don't think anyone that would be talking about performance would want to either.

I was referring to those of us who value performance more then styling. Those who do will spend money on performance. I don't mind spending a good chunk of money rebuilding my transmission because I know it'll improve the way my car drives. Does that mean I should have bought a better car in the first place? Maybe.. But I started with it so I would rather put some money in to it to make it a better car then spend more money then I have on buying a BMW M3 that I don't really know how to modify. It's already a quick car to start with.

But I buy things that are purely for looks as well. Like a side marker. Or a lip kit. I don't want an ugly car. Don't think anyone does.

[Ray731]

Can't wait to see the OP's car! Going to keep an eye on this!

[import_nation]

No updates probably means nothing has happened.

[naticedog04]

dboz this is for you. would you answer the following question please?
why do you want an SCION FR-S?
I agree, let the great minds take a car to the limits that i would not be able to do. then sitback and see what the car really has to offer before i get myself into a bigger debt hole than i already am in (less the 3,000 by the way, minus the house and the corolla lol).
the people you mention, buying stuff that looks nice but don't do a thing for performance are one crowd. some will go cheap and by knock off, others will go all out and buy the rarerest, highest priced stuff just to make the car "LOOK" better. This is a "showcar" crowd that wants to be on the next import mag front cover. IMHO there is nothing wrong with this crowd, they just aren't after track or drag performance, this group is a group of artist who choose a car as their canvas to express themselves. Just a quick note, there was a movie made in the late 90's, early 2000, that messed a lot of people up. In this movie it included neon lights, body kits, crazy spoilers, crazy decals, and "naws", just to mention a few. If you ask me, i blame the "H-wood" town. But regardless of who to blame, I hope the aftermarket companies do not follow the trend they did for a lot of lower priced cars(cheap body kits, parts that don't fit, parts that just make noise, etc)

Now then, to the next crowd, the actual tuners who stip down their car piece by piece and take all their knowledge to build it for track or drag(for example the person who started this thread). Those are real tuner's who would agree with you that an CAI may not be worth the money or time to put it in. They're worried about time slips and milliseconds, which should translate to profit. They are the actual "do'ers" of this and any other community. You can find them in each community, these are the 10% you mention in another ealiar post. In any community, 90% are just in it for the ride and will spend money on parts just to say they have them or make their car more fun and pleasing to themselves(myself included). the first 10% will drive the community into new levels and history. So back to my original question, why are you on this forum? Here's my answer to my own question, I'm here because i want to see what Hachi Roku can and will do. I don't care if i get a BRZ or Scion FR-S, I don't even care if your cars can smoke mine in a straight line; I'm here because this car was built by enthusiasts, for enthusiasts. This car was built to sell to the daily drivers who worry about gas mileage and have a blast driving(gas is up to $4.50 for 91 octane). This car was also built for the performance minded crowd to take to the limits. And this car was made to have "curb" appeal. American Cars are no longer built for the American consumer, by an American, they are built in other countries CAN and MEX, for profit so the CEO's get paid. Ask Toyota if they plan on making a profit on this car, cause if they were, they would be selling the FR-S for the same price as the BRZ. Their minds and goals were for the consumer crowd, which is how a car should be made, regardless of who makes it or where's it's produced, or how much it sells for P-E-R-I-O-D

[dboz]

Originally I was interested since I have not seen a car like this since I was in my 20's. I was always in school in the days of early Z cars, Supra hayday and 240SX. I always wanted something like that. This looked to fit the bill. In the meantime of life, I got married and had kids which makes a two door much less convenient. I decided to get into an EVO X. I like my X but still have the desire for a two door and RWD. I have a built 72 Skylark and a 72 Corvette 3/4 through a frame off resto. SO buy nature, I am a high horsepower RWD type of guy. The X was a big change of pace and I have grown on the technology and the AWD is great in northern OHIO.

So with that bit of history, I was looking at this car for price and the cool factor. The concept AXIS 5 concept blew me away. FINALLY a rwd two door that actually looked tough. Not some old man S2000 or Miata style. Then the real car rolls out and it is much less aggressive (they always are). The wheel gaps are huge (easy fix). The power is less than I was hoping (250 was my hope). I am skeptical on the transmissions ability to handle bigger power and also whether or not the engine is going to be up to power adders. All fixable but I look at overall costs. To me, if I need to add $15-20k into this car, I can move way up the chain to a different platform like an M3. I know it is a much larger car, but they still handle great.

Also, the price on the FR-S is looking to be way more than I was hoping (22-25 range). Sounds more like 25-28 range. Keep in mind I bought a used EVO X with 4k miles GSR SSS package for $24k. That car as you know is a techno wonder. Forged aluminum suspension, aluminum roof, hood and fenders, brembos, AYC (awesome handling) and I can still fit my kids in the rear. So my disappointment is that for me to get an FR-S will actually be a somewhat step backward, since for $4k in mods I have springs, wheels, CAI, UICP, high flow cat, cat back and gauges, aftermarket CMC, and high performance clutch, center diff pins upgraded at SHEP trans, and tune making 350hp/380ft/lbs. at the wheels. SO for a total of $28k, I guess it makes it tough for me to see the benefits of this platform compared to where I am now. I may just keep the EVO and still get an FR-S for more of a change of pace and summer car.

So if you have any more issues with my situation shoot them my way. I hope you see where I am coming from as I have certainly had some frustrations with this FR-S as we hear new things. I am really hoping someone like STS (squires turbo systems) will come with a rear mount turbo setup for it. I am not sure an under hood turbo is going to fit.

Again, not sure about clutch and transmission and internal engine components taking the power. All that adds up quickly and I don't want a little car that has $35k into it. (2-3k for turbo setup, 1-1.5k for a clutch, build the trans if necessary?, springs, wheels) Right there I can see at least $4-5k. Just starts getting into other car price range. Mustang GT, used BMW n54's (500-600hp easy with stock forged motor) etc. Many here just like the Japanese aspect of the car. I am not a diehard in that respect.

I am not really into this type of car for MPG, but I understand you younger guys are. I have always been a horsepower guy. 462 big block in my Buick, 383 stroker full roller motor in my Corvette, Evo etc. I know my EVO will handle better than the FR-S. This platform may not be for me. This is why I am here learning and exploring. I want it to work, just not sure it will.